View Full Version : Manual boost controller advice?
I saw this on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7900934505&category=32094&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1
I've seen some of you guys with your EBC's and wondered if there was any point in getting one of these?
Neer used a MBC myself but they certainly work. You can do a few things with an electronic one that you can't do with a manual but whether it is worth the extra £250 is debatable. The big plus is in-car adjustability and automatic compensation for changes in air temperature which can affect your boost pressure otherwise.
There is loads of info on different types of MBC's at an Oz website called Autospeed. Not sure how much you can see without paying for it though.
The MBC's sch as the one above have one advantage over electronic boost controllers in that the ball bearing type keep the wastegate completely closed until the desired boost is hit, meaning the boost comes on quicker and can help with spoolup. They're not very accurate though as you'r relying on a simple spring to do the job. You could also make one yourself from basic pneumatic supplies.
The best one around at the moment is celicamads version, he's researched it well but its expensive at about £130 postage .
http://home.kooee.com.au/celicamad/celicamad%20boost%20control.htm
How easy are they to fit?
Ian.
What boost levels are you thinking of running?? 11 psi, you cant beat 5p's worth of washers :D
The MBC's sch as the one above have one advantage over electronic boost controllers in that the ball bearing type keep the wastegate completely closed until the desired boost is hit, meaning the boost comes on quicker and can help with spoolup.
EBCs do this too - ie keep the valve shut until the boost is reached.
EBCs are useful as Adam says because of the automatic compensation and the ease of adjustment. I can swap between 8PSI and 12PSI, etc, with a couple of settings.
I have heard of a few issues with MBCs sticking due to oil deposits so you might want to stop oil from getting into your intake before installing any new kit there.
Are they worth the extra £200+ ... probably not unless you are going for serious boost - and you'll need a new turbo for that.
gtstarga
29-04-04, 06:59 PM
I saw this on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7900934505&category=32094&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1
I've seen some of you guys with your EBC's and wondered if there was any point in getting one of these?
I have got tht hks boost controler. Although exspensive tis good. Paid about £400-£450. It looks nice/bling aswell
Nodalmighty
29-04-04, 09:30 PM
The MBC's sch as the one above have one advantage over electronic boost controllers in that the ball bearing type keep the wastegate completely closed until the desired boost is hit, meaning the boost comes on quicker and can help with spoolup. They're not very accurate though as you'r relying on a simple spring to do the job. You could also make one yourself from basic pneumatic supplies.
The best one around at the moment is celicamads version, he's researched it well but its expensive at about £130 postage .
http://home.kooee.com.au/celicamad/celicamad%20boost%20control.htm
We have fitted quite a few Bren valves and have found them to be suberb. They hold very stable boost unlike a bleeder T which is a piece of crap.
I would like to say we can sell them to you at a discount but we like to hold on to them as they sell like hot cakes and re-orders can take time. If there is enough interest (10+) you can use our buying power and place a group buy order through GT or who ever is the offical list group buyer.
Nod.
Just an update folks, and a couple of questions.
I set the valve up for about 6psi using a tyre pump with a guage on it and a length of SVH.
I stripped out the IC pipe, accordion hose, AFM and air box.
I replaced the two vac. hoses down under the turbo toward the front of the car (one goes to the accordion hose) with SVH (I'm an addict now).
I drilled a hole in the rear of the power steering reservoir bracket (two actually, 'cos I screwed up the first time) and mounted the valve with a p-clip to the reservoir side (inside the bracket). Hosed up the valve to the turbo and wastegate actuator, as per instructions. The hose that fits the turbo and wastegate is too loose for the valve so I went with a thinner ID, to fit the valve. As it's SVH it stretches to fit the turbo and wastegate.
I fitted the K&N FIPK to the AFM, as per instructions, and fitted the whole thing to the car. Split the accordion hose in the process :banghead: .
I took the car out for a test drive and, on power, the boost was set to go off the guage (8psi+). I never let it overboost, not according to the guage anyway. I repeatedly backed off the valve 1/4 of a turn and retested, no luck. I couldn't get it to blow at 6-7psi. I also noticed that the induction kit seemed to be making a hell of a noise (shlurping air) on power and the BOV was going chachachachachacha for about 1-2 seconds when I let go the accelerator (off power). It's never made any audible sound before.
So, I stripped the car down again and found out that I'd forgotten to connect this little SVH (that I fitted earlier :banghead: ) to the underside of the Accordion hose.
At this stage I'd run out of time and needed the car so I tore out the valve, left the FIPK in and reassembled everything (inluding the hose :banghead: ).
The car drives smooth as silk. The air shlurping noise has gone and the chachachachachacha but she seems a little sluggish. Could I have done any damage? Assuming yes, what symptomes should I look for?
I'ts unlikely that you have done any damage. If you overboost then you will hit fuelcut. Running with a higher boost will need more air and you will get more induction noise, so I wouldn't worry about that. The BOV will also suffer more at higher boost and may be already be failing. The pipe you left off is for the power steering. Did you connect the valve the right way round? Air will flow from the turbo housing to the wastegate actuator (tin can). Have you got another boost gauge? What exhaust do you have?
I'ts unlikely that you have done any damage. If you overboost then you will hit fuelcut. Running with a higher boost will need more air and you will get more induction noise, so I wouldn't worry about that. The BOV will also suffer more at higher boost and may be already be failing. The pipe you left off is for the power steering. Did you connect the valve the right way round? Air will flow from the turbo housing to the wastegate actuator (tin can). Have you got another boost gauge? What exhaust do you have?
I'm confident I connected it the right way round, followed the instructions :bigeyes: . Also, intuitively, the air pressure from the turbo should assist the spring to move the ball up the barrel of the valve until the air can escape to the wastegate, right? That means that the turbo fits on the end of the valve and the wastegate on the side.
No, I don't have another turbo gauge, just the stock dash guage.
I've got the stock zorst. Don't tell me I shouldn't be winding up the boost until I've got a big zorst. :) I'm not planning to wind the boost up, just have it kick in quciker and harder.
the air pressure from the turbo should assist the spring to move the ball up the barrel of the valve until the air can escape to the wastegate, right? That means that the turbo fits on the end of the valve and the wastegate on the side.
I would expect the spring to work against the ball, ie the ball should be held closed by the spring and pressure must open it. The order should be turbo->ball->spring->wastegate. The adjustment will act on the spring to alter it's compression.
Edit: After checking the picture on page 1: Unless they have some crafty engineering I would expect the arrow to point to the inlet (turbo nipple) and the downward pipe to be the outlet (wategate). That is how the straight version would work. I guess this is the same priciple only at 90 degrees.
I would expect the spring to work against the ball, ie the ball should be held closed by the spring and pressure must open it. The order should be turbo->ball->spring->wastegate. The adjustment will act on the spring to alter it's compression.
Yeah sorry Lofty that's what I meant. I know when you read it that's not what I said but it's what I meant. :cheeky:
It sounds like you have it all in hand. I can't understand why it didn't open at your preset level. The only thing we haven't allowed for is the density of the air. By cold checking the air is denser than the air from the turbo which is hotter and therefore less dense but that shouldn't matter to pressure. Another thought that occurs is that the pressure gauge reading is taken near the manifold and should therefore be LOWER than at the turbo. Nothing makes sense. It will also be difficult to tell whether it is working as you are aiming for something near the stock pressure. I suggest that you back the valve all the way out and check that the wastegate opens as stock and then turn the adjustment forward untill the boost hits higher than you normally record, then lower it to what you want.
xgordyx
07-06-04, 09:35 PM
Just thinking..... Is there any reason the boost controler can't be mounted inside the car by means of long vac pipes? If it was possibile it would be so much easyer than stopping and fiddeling arround under the bonnet every couple of minuits untill it was set up.
Nodalmighty
07-06-04, 10:07 PM
Just thinking..... Is there any reason the boost controler can't be mounted inside the car by means of long vac pipes? If it was possibile it would be so much easyer than stopping and fiddeling arround under the bonnet every couple of minuits untill it was set up.
Overboost a gogo my friend !
Nod.
xgordyx
07-06-04, 10:16 PM
Overboost a gogo my friend !
Nod.
Am i correct in saying this is because it will take a longer time to build up the preasure at the boost controler coz of the long pipes, ie. say the boost controler is set to 8 psi the preasure at the turbo is say 8psi and by the time the pipe going to the boost controler preasures up to 8psi the turbo maybe boost 10psi due to the time the turbo is still on boost whilst it's trying to build up preasure in the boost controler pipe
Nodalmighty
07-06-04, 10:32 PM
Am i correct in saying this is because it will take a longer time to build up the preasure at the boost controler coz of the long pipes, ie. say the boost controler is set to 8 psi the preasure at the turbo is say 8psi and by the time the pipe going to the boost controler preasures up to 8psi the turbo maybe boost 10psi due to the time the turbo is still on boost whilst it's trying to build up preasure in the boost controler pipe
Dunno, It just does. More a boost spike than a consistant over pressure. If you get on and off the throttle a few times this spike can get massive.
Nod.
This is what the problem is!
I think Nod's hit it on the head!
The vac. pipe between the turbo and wastegate is 2"-ish long.
The new vac. pipes are 6"-ish long EACH.
When the boost hits it takes, comparitively, a lot of air to fill the pipes, consequently the guage shows overboost, I jump off the throttle and never get to see it settle down.
I know it's fiddly as fick but I'm going to try it with very short pipes and see what happens.
Watch this space.
This is what the problem is!
I think Nod's hit it on the head!
The vac. pipe between the turbo and wastegate is 2"-ish long.
The new vac. pipes are 6"-ish long EACH.
When the boost hits it takes, comparitively, a lot of air to fill the pipes, consequently the guage shows overboost, I jump off the throttle and never get to see it settle down.
I know it's fiddly as fick but I'm going to try it with very short pipes and see what happens.
Watch this space.
I doubt that this is your problem, Ian. I have extended mine on my EBC to the innerwing, probably over 12" each, with no problems. What Nod is suggesting is that adding say 4 or 5 feet would cause a boost spike. This is why you really need another boost guage - it may have settled at 8.5PSI.
666theboy
08-06-08, 08:50 PM
i have looked through the tech section and i cant find an answer to this question.
can you fit an after market bov along with the factory one?
i know HOW to do it, but is it feasable?
obviously tap a t-pipe in and run it off, but will it affect anything by doing this?
mods feel free to move this if i have posted in the wrong place. cheers
haha 4 years to the day since the last post in this thread.
you may find some more info on www.supramania.com that mite help ya out aswell mate
Penfold
09-06-08, 08:49 AM
i have looked through the tech section and i cant find an answer to this question.
can you fit an after market bov along with the factory one?
i know HOW to do it, but is it feasable?
obviously tap a t-pipe in and run it off, but will it affect anything by doing this?
mods feel free to move this if i have posted in the wrong place. cheers
Short answer to your question is, don't!
An after market BOV replaces the stock recirculating one, though make sure you buy a decent one, like a bailey DV26.
some folks have had problems after fitting atmospheric BOV's, but mine seems to work OK.
extendor
09-06-08, 12:49 PM
i have looked through the tech section and i cant find an answer to this question.
can you fit an after market bov along with the factory one?
i know HOW to do it, but is it feasable?
obviously tap a t-pipe in and run it off, but will it affect anything by doing this?
mods feel free to move this if i have posted in the wrong place. cheers
Yes you can. I had both the standard BOV and the Blitz with Hardpipe fitted at the same time.
Never seemed to make any difference and was dead easy to fit.
extendor
09-06-08, 12:53 PM
I doubt that this is your problem, Ian. I have extended mine on my EBC to the innerwing, probably over 12" each, with no problems. What Nod is suggesting is that adding say 4 or 5 feet would cause a boost spike. This is why you really need another boost guage - it may have settled at 8.5PSI.
From experience I had the same and sorted it with shortening the pipes to their absolute minimum. I have been told it also helps if you use rigid pipes as well and not the crappy silicone pipes in the kit. I was running well over 1Bar and had all sorts of 'flutter' problems. Cured them with shortening the pipes and a bit of fiddling with the settings on the boost controller.
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