1JZ 400HP, whats needed?

[BigSupe]

What is needed to extract 400hp from the 1jz?

[Darket]

A large horse-power syringe .. however its best to leave it in the engine :D

[gtstarga]

option 1.
Hybrid the twins, SAFC-II or similar, boost controler, bigger injectors and Ypipe and downpipe.
Option 2.
Go big single.


Things on my wish list!!!

[cptsideways]

You can just do it the stock turbos but they won't last long. Go for a single tubby I'm running a gt3076r on a XS power manifold. Its up till now been running a completely stock management & fuel system with a boost controller, custom 3" downpipe & exhust & fmic, making 360bhp at 1.1 bar. Responsive as hell, very torquey & pretty fast as is.

Just fitting up an emenage, 550cc injectors, fuel pump & pressure reg for the full 500 ponies & 1.4 odd bar. Will report the findings soon.

[Bondango]

and another route to consider....

1. 440cc injectors from Jspec 2jzgte - just drop in
2. 2jzgte Map sensor - plug and play
3. Walbro Pump
4. SAFC
5. ct12 to t25 flange x 2
6. 2 x gt28rs Hybrids
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT28-GT28rs-Ball-Bearing-Turbo-Turbocharger-GTRS_W0QQitemZ330130742285QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33742 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
7. 2 Dowpipes Y affair, intake pipes, oil feeds and return kit.

The manifold adpters are quite easily made, Steve at silverline could make them up. Downpipes again, would be a simple Y pipe affair. And at around £500 for a pair of stonking Turbos that will blow any ct hybrid out of the water and flow enough for 600hp+ you couldnt go wrong

With this setup, 400 ponys all day long without even trying, drop in some 650cc injectors and emange and AFPR at a later stage and wang up the boost.

[mark]

£500 a pair! is it just me or is that really cheap!
and the pics of those turbos made my wanna buy em straight away!

I think the standard 280hp will keep me happy for a while though, at least till next year :)

-Mark
2.5TT

[BigSupe]

Is this the sort of y pipe and down-pipe I would need?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TOYOTA-1JZGTE-UPGRADE-TWIN-TURBO-DUMP-AND-FRONT-PIPES_W0QQitemZ220121564534QQihZ012QQcategoryZ4380 8QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
What do you reckon the quality is like

[garethr]

Be careful, they may be intended for a different car, like a Chaser, and even if they fit the Chaser, they may not fit a Supra (or Soarer).
http://alscforum.com/discus/messages/116/282.html

The Aussies reckon the (Soarer) dumps in the top pic in this post are the most effective
http://alscforum.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=140&post=1826#POST1826

More
http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/51875/167057.html?1181888983

[garethr]

This one is 458 at the hubs
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/projects-builds/30969-its-going-fast.html

A couple of threads on TIF
http://www.toyotaimportsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3834
http://www.toyotaimportsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6865

[BigSupe]

Have been looking on the supramania website and some of there guys reckon that it is only the first generation 1jz that suffers with turbo problems, there saying 18psi on standard twins is ok as long as you have the second generation engine?

Is this true? I'm worried about de-catting my car as some people have had trouble, were they just unlucky?

[adi]

utter crap.. ignore them. The US lot like to believe in all this 1st and 2nd gen stuff in an effort to convince themselves they have better engines than they actually have.

There is no 1st gen and 2nd gen 1JZ.. they just did a revision with a one way valve in the cam cover and a move on an inlet pipe. Thats it. nothing else. How this equated to a different generation engine is a mystery to me.

Sure, you can run your 1JZ turbos at 18 psi.. but they risk blowing AND all they're doing is producing masses of heat anyway.. utterly pointless and a sure fire way to cost you money.

Decatting your car DOES increase the risk of turbo seals blowing for some on reason on a 1J. Mine did, someone else did on here, and so have counltess US 1J owners owners.. yet for some reason the supraforums lot refuse to acknowledge it.

MY advice to up the power is simply dont do it until you have bought or have the money to buy replacement turbos. At that point you'll ideally need an ECU replacement, as even with the 440's, 2J map and SAFC etc you're still limited to 17 psi absolute max (about 350bhp).

PS hybrids aint cheap believe me, you wont have much change out of £1800 by the time you've finished.

[Bondango]

Adi just to Stress you DONT need an ECU replacement - thats full standalone. the SAFC-440cc-MAP upgrade is enough for most people needs on hybrids or pushing stocks that extra furlong.

FMIC, 650cc drop ins, Aeromotive FPR setup, Emanage Blue (injector, ignition harness, 3bar map sensor package) and fuel pump will take care of the ECU and fueling side of things up to around 600hp +

Its the Turbo side of things that need careful consideration. Hybrids in my book are not worth the expense on the 1jz. Pay a little extra and go single...

[bloater]

So what would be needed to go big single and how much would it cost????

As i've been considering this myself :)

[Bondango]

Well try to ommitt the word "big" :)
When i take about big singles i refer to larger frame turbos say gt40 to gt45 etc etc. For a streetable setup you want a turbo with quick spool so you dont loose low down driveability and enough grunt to sustain a decent power level. Basically you loose low down driveability and gain top end power the bigger the Turbo.

My choice would be the along following lines for 500-600hp..

Greddy FMIC
PTE 650cc drop in injectors
Aeromotive FPR setup+damper bypass
Emanage Blue with injector & ignition harness and optional 3bar map sensor
Walbro 255lph Pump
T4 manifold with Vband Wastegate flange
Tial 44mm Vband wastegate
Tial 50mm Bov with alu weld flange
Garrett GT35R Ball Bearing Turbo (T4, .82 Exhaust)
Garrett DBB oil/water install kit
Vband 3" Downpipe with o2 sensor bung
custom Intake pipe with Apexi Induction kit

[shadow-warrior]

The main fault with decatting on stock 1jz tubby's is the fact that the wastegates arn't man enough to slow the turbines down when back pressure is removed, therefore over spooling the turbines so that they overboost before the wastegate catches up, this then knackers the turbine seals and eventually the bearings (if left in this state) - voila smokey idle all day long.

Good old boost creep eh!

The 1jz 1st and 2nd gen stuff came about with the breather pipe changes as adi mentioned, this was done as they found premature failure on the cambox one way valve therefore pressurising the crankcase under boost and the need to speed up the intake into the tubby pipework as turbulence was found in the early "1st gen" pipework - but hey fit a catch tank - you dont want oil vapour in a performance engine anyway!

HTH

[adi]

Adi just to Stress you DONT need an ECU replacement - thats full standalone. the SAFC-440cc-MAP upgrade is enough for most people needs on hybrids or pushing stocks that extra furlong.



true.. you dont need it, but at 17psi you also tend to get igntion probs dont you?.. i've read stories that even with an emanage the ECU reverts back to the base settings after a while? effectively over riding any ignition control.

That, coupled with the fact that 17psi is only marginally over the stock 15psi fuel cut, and the fact that your still running at the very top end of everything makes the standalone a much better option to me.

Opinions?

[adi]

The main fault with decatting on stock 1jz tubby's is the fact that the wastegates arn't man enough to slow the turbines down when back pressure is removed, therefore over spooling the turbines so that they overboost before the wastegate catches up, this then knackers the turbine seals and eventually the bearings (if left in this state) - voila smokey idle all day long.

HTH

ah thats the first explanation i've heard as to why the seals fail.. yeah the wastgates are tiny.. i had to send my turbos back to TT after a few months for a wastegate enlargement due to runaway boost.

[shadow-warrior]

i've read stories that even with an emanage the ECU reverts back to the base settings after a while? effectively over riding any ignition control.

Opinions?

I think the 'reverting' is an issue on the emanage system itself, i have come across this on 3S-GTE units too, it reverts back and 'forgets' what you mapped it to do - ouch!!! ...also dont forget only the emanage ultimate can allow timing map controls, never seen this feature on the blue emanage unit unless mistaken.

The factory ecu with piggyback fuel units etc is capable of running a few tweaks here and there to gain tidy bhp.

[Bondango]

true.. you dont need it, but at 17psi you also tend to get igntion probs dont you?.. i've read stories that even with an emanage the ECU reverts back to the base settings after a while? effectively over riding any ignition control.

That, coupled with the fact that 17psi is only marginally over the stock 15psi fuel cut, and the fact that your still running at the very top end of everything makes the standalone a much better option to me.

Opinions?

We run the Blue on loadsa cars, the only ignition problem ive come across Adi has been with the 7M (due to the weird IGF protocol) and even the badaid fix isnt the best, and the Refusal to work on UK spec 2jzgte's.
EMB will map to 30psi no problems at all, and control ignition without any drop out. The way the EMB works, the Stock ECU cant override it, as it Fudges signals After theyre sent from the ECU. Any ignition map problems with the EMB itself that i have witnessed have been down buggy Firmware, especially on the later versions above v1.40 which upgrade to Gold.

[adi]

ahhh okay.. still alot of hassle though for 17 odd psi. Doesnt leave you much headroom.. i'd go standalone i reckon if i was going for 400 or over bhp.

[shadow-warrior]

...also dont forget only the emanage ultimate can allow timing map controls, never seen this feature on the blue emanage unit unless mistaken.


Ignore my jibberish, ofcourse the blue unit can do ignition maps but only with the additional harness wired in - Deerrr :poke:

[Bondango]

ahhh okay.. still alot of hassle though for 17 odd psi. Doesnt leave you much headroom.. i'd go standalone i reckon if i was going for 400 or over bhp.

Adi EMB uses its own sensor for mapping...3 Bar :-)

[adi]

yeah i understand all that.. but why go to all the trouble with piggybacks when a replacement ECU will cost the same amount and give you greater control? genuine question..

[Bondango]

yeah i understand all that.. but why go to all the trouble with piggybacks when a replacement ECU will cost the same amount and give you greater control? genuine question..


1. Tried and Tested standalone £700(+), harder install, and needs complete Mapping work.

2. Emanage blue (inj, ign, map Pack) £300, easy install, easy mapping

[BigSupe]

I'm new to all of this aftermarket engine management stuff, It may be really simple but best to be honest, could somebody list the basics

HKS f-con
Emanage
Standalone
etc

Thus ecu on ebay would no doubt give more power than standard do they have benefits compared to the other types listed, or is this just basic tuning?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320128548777&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:UK:1

[Bondango]

Well basically, Your car has an ECU, this controls the running of the Engine. It has a specific set of programs which access data (maps) depending on the feedback of the many various engine sensors etc etc.
The ECU's maps have been written specifically for your engine and the components such as turbos, injectors etc etc when it left the production line.

Now, when you modify your engine in Anyway, the ECU has no way of knowing you have added a big turbo, or bigger injectors or Airfilter etc etc. So it will continue to operate your engine as normal. SO.... you need away of changing the data to suit what you have done..

3 basic ways in doing this..

1. Reprogramming the ECU's memory with new data (maps). This option is virtually non existant on Toyota's due to the special ROMS used inside the ECU. Cars such as Nissan 300zx's etc etc use common everyday EPROMS that can be read by software and maniplulated i.e. Fuel maps changed, then written to a new Eprom and put back in the ECU.
Some tuning companys did delevop roms Such as Mines, Techtom etc etc. But these were very expensive and often were limited in there functions. I.e. Mines raised the rev limit by 500rpms, advance the timing down below a little and added more fuel to the map so you could turn the boost up a little.
But your restricted to what they have done..and the information is very sketchy to say the least.

2. Piggybacks (signal fudgers)
These devices basically change the Signals sent and recieved by the ECU. For example an SAFC modifys what Air flow or Air pressure the ECU is seeing, making it add to or takeaway Fuel. These are the most common upgrades when taking about engine management. There are many many on the Market and each does to a degree similar functions.
Some older piggy backs such as the Early FCON's are non adjustable and act like No.1
APEXI SAFC, NEO, HKS AFR, etc etc all modify Air flow or Map pressure so that fueling can be Adjusted.
Emanage, MAFTpro, etc etc also modify fuel, but ignition values to.
There are many many many varients out there. They need to be setup on a rolling road/dyno and you need a good undersatnding of what they do, and how they work in order to use them/

3. Standalone.
This is a Completely NEW ecu. You remove your old ECU and chuck it in the Bin. The New ECU will probably need new sensors and adpters to work with your Engine. It will have to be wired to the engine using a complete custom wiring harness (Though some have adpaters to use most of the existing harness). It will need to be setup from scratch will need many different Maps such as cold start map, Closed loop maps, open loop maps, Ignition maps, Knock Maps Programmed into it (which means a lot of rolling road/dyno tuning time).. This does mean however that the MAPS are tailored Specifically to your engine and its components and state of Tune.
The downsode is expense, and with some ECU's such as HKS FCON Pro-V, only certain people have the software to do the mapping of it. Theres are lots and lots to choose from, but to make the most of them, you need someone who is competent at tuning them, and someone who knows the characteristics of your car.

[garethr]

http://alscforum.com/discus/messages/120/3910.html?1184142999

300 kw at the wheels (401 bhp)

Soarer auto 1JZ, hybrid twins, eManage, 256/264 cams, 98ron.