7M-GTE Engine Block Wanted

[Sgt Bilko]

Hi.
I'm having a bad day - lol
So far i've had 3 supra 7M-GTE engine blocks and all three have been cracked on the block face between the steam hole next to number 3 & 4 cylinders on the passenger side of the block out to the head stud hole near it. This fault only shows up when surface grinding the face. Milling does not show it.

I need another 7M-GTE block that has not been cooked.

Anyone got one ?, I live in cheltenham so anywhere within 100 miles would be good.

PM me if you can help.

Cheers
Sarge.

[JSeaman]

PM me with the price you're looking at, I think I can get you a head and block with mhg fitted

Cheers

James

[Sgt Bilko]

Dont need a head. Just the Block itself.
Have you got any ?

I've just checked price and delivery with Toyota and they are looking for £1,194.65 + Vat for a new block casting. 2 weeks delivery from Japan. If things keep going they way they are then this may be a better option.

My last engine build took 2 blocks to find one without cracks in the face, this build has taken 3 blocks so far without finding one i would use.

So far this year the score is running at 4-1

Dont you just love 7M's !

Cheers
Jon.

[JSeaman]

Can always split them apart

Do you only literally want the block as in the case with no rods, crank, pistons etc? If so I've got Kev's old one which is fine as far as I know

:) You're doing well at 4-1!!

[taffy turbo]

will an NA block be ok as the only difference is the crank and rods.. the oil feed for the turbo's could be re-manufactured.
reason i suggest is na dont tend to overheat as often as turbo's

[steve.82]

Oooh sorry to hijack, but what's different about the crank and rods? I'm not too concerned about the rod differences, but I was planning to use the stock n/a crank in my build

[brookes_7M1990]

im not sure theyre is a difference. i know theres a 6m and a 7m crank though which is used in which? my crank in my turbo is a 6m. anyone spread light on this?

[Darket]

Oooh sorry to hijack, but what's different about the crank and rods? I'm not too concerned about the rod differences, but I was planning to use the stock n/a crank in my build

There is no difference ... early cars had the 6M crank which was lighter but not as strong .. later cars had the 7M crank which is stronger and has heavier counter weights .. rods were all the same .

To make an NA block in to a turbo block you would need to machine the oil feed and returns and the oil spray jets .. thats one hell of a lot of drilling boring and tapping.

This is where the story of the group A engine starting life as an NA engine ... well they all do .. even the very first 1986 NA's had the blanks for the turbo.

[ozzizere]

Hi.
I'm having a bad day - lol
So far i've had 3 supra 7M-GTE engine blocks and all three have been cracked on the block face between the steam hole next to number 3 & 4 cylinders on the passenger side of the block out to the head stud hole near it. This fault only shows up when surface grinding the face. Milling does not show it.

I need another 7M-GTE block that has not been cooked.

Anyone got one ?, I live in cheltenham so anywhere within 100 miles would be good.

PM me if you can help.

Cheers
Sarge.

hiya mate..i have an engine at the yard & apart from the legendary con-rod knock its ok..it hada head gasket job done last year & it n it ran perfectly apart from the conrod knock..ifu can collect it yu can have it. the head is still on the block n its just the head n block..the engine is in peterhorror??

[Sgt Bilko]

Can always split them apart

Do you only literally want the block as in the case with no rods, crank, pistons etc? If so I've got Kev's old one which is fine as far as I know

:) You're doing well at 4-1!!

Yes its just the bare block i'm after. ( with bearing caps and end covers of course ) Although i would take a complete motor.

Donations welcome in any form !!!!!

Sarge.

[Sgt Bilko]

will an NA block be ok as the only difference is the crank and rods.. the oil feed for the turbo's could be re-manufactured.
reason i suggest is na dont tend to overheat as often as turbo's

Might come to it at this rate.
Doing the extra machining is no issue at all for someone in my profession - lol

Jon.

[Sgt Bilko]

Got a PM from 'Brookes 7M1990' who has a spare block.
He's close to me in Oxford, so i'll give this one a try next.

To those who replied - Thanks, and please dont throw anything away just yet !!!!

This post may re-appear - lol

One thing for sure is that either i'm VERY unlucky, or this is a flaw in the 7M block. If you're doing a full rebuild on a 7M get the face surface ground....

Cheers

Sarge.

[JSeaman]

OK if that doesn't work out I've got all the bits you need over here in Derbyshire

[andrewc]

PM me with the price you're looking at, I think I can get you a head and block with mhg fitted

Cheers

James

sorry for the thread jack Sgt Bilko...but seeing as your sorted now :)

pm sent JSeaman

To anyone else, I am looking for a healthy 7m GTE motor as a basis for a motor build I am undertaking. please let me know if you have one and are'nt the other side of the country (from Sheffield)

[JSeaman]

PM'd you back - if you're interested I'll see if I can deliver it to your door although that might take some doing!!

[andrewc]

PM'd you back - if you're interested I'll see if I can deliver it to your door although that might take some doing!!

Thanks mate. pm on its way :)

If anyone else has a motor to going spare!, please let me know!

[Sgt Bilko]

Gort had a few.
May be worth sending a PM.

Best of luck finding one thats not cracked though !!!!

Jon.

[andrewc]

Gort had a few.
May be worth sending a PM.

Best of luck finding one thats not cracked though !!!!

Jon.

Cheers :)

think I may have found one but Ive no idea if its cracked or not yet...
Was there no possiblity of getting the crack welded?

I know a place near me that specialises in welding/repairing cast engine blocks and/or cylinder heads...
They repaired a cracked audi cylinder head once for me and were pretty damn good!

Got any pics of the damage by any chance?

[Dino]

lol sean.w still has a block in a car that has sat for a while so would need a real over haul send him a pm if u luck out anywhere else.

[BONDY]

Got any pics of the damage by any chance?

Its not a crack, its a hairline fracture between the stud hole and a water passage, I think a lot of it is down the faces being "surface ground" instead of being "Machined" or the other theory is the fracture is always there, but when the head bolt is inserted it seals the fracture.

And on your other question Sarge, he says no :no:

[Sgt Bilko]

Sufrace grinding is the most gentle operation for refacing a block, it also gives the best finish and a very flat surface. Inserting a stud into the thread and loading it will cause the crack to open and propogate further down as time goes on. This is definately a weak point on 7M blocks. The crack can be seen running down the thread about 6 to 8mm if closely checked. On a couple of the blocks the crack can be seen running down the side of the steam hole, right through the thickness of the deck.

The crack is not caused by surface grinding , trust me , i'm an aerospace engineer of 20 yrs experience. The casting must be weak in this area, and the cycle of heating / cooling / heating / cooling..... over time causes failure.

Just went round to Marks place tonight ( Brookes 7M1990 ) and saw his 7M-GTE engine build which looked good, until i pointed out the crack in its usual place...... damn unlucky. His is visible even though the block face has not been touched - its factory origional. Maybe he could put some photos up ??

Bondy, on the last subject, i expected that answer really. I knew it after meeting him. Say no more. Thanks for your help anyway.

Block No 4 goes into South Cerney Engineering tomorrow, will have results by the end of the week. Fingers crossed .

I'll try and borrow a camera and get a photo, mine wont do up close stuff, i think you need a macro function or something. I'll see what i can do.

Cheers

Jon.

[andrewc]

This is interesting information. Thanks Bondy and Bilko....

You have me slightly concerned now Sgt Bilko :)


What if I get down to my motor build and I find a hairline crack too :/

Having said that..,....surely there must be loads of motors that are running fine with this hiding under the skin..if it is indeed so common?

What are other folks experiences?

have to keep the fingers crossed Im lucky....

I have faith Sean.W that this motor is a beauty :)

[BONDY]

I have faith Sean.W that this motor is a beauty :)

In all honesty, do you think Sean wold have been looking for a a hairline crack if or when he rebuilt that engine??

I've done a few now and have never noticed this fracture, but i'm having my head off in the next couple of weeks, so will have a quick check of mine too :D

[brookes_7M1990]

i only noticed this crack when john pointed it out to me. very very small but still its there. although never had a problem with it before and was running around 300bhp. pretty sure its not too much of an issue on low power applications but when it comes to high power goals you may have a problem. not gonna be able to put any pics up, my fone wont go close up

[andrewc]

In all honesty, do you think Sean wold have been looking for a a hairline crack if or when he rebuilt that engine??

I've done a few now and have never noticed this fracture, but i'm having my head off in the next couple of weeks, so will have a quick check of mine too :D

Agreed mate :0
Its not the kind of thing anyone would notice unless you were looking for it.
When I fit the metal head gasket and ARPs I will have a quick check...but Im not going to to go to all kinds of extremes..

[Sgt Bilko]

You could be right, if its a stock rebuild or mild tune you MAY get away with it. Maybe not. I'm just plain fussy about these things, and in my experience its shown that this is far less hassle in the long run. Building a 7M is time consuming and theres no pioint doing the job twice for the sake of a few hundred quid or a bit of extra time.

The problem is that Marks blocks was the first i'd seen where the crack was visible prior to surface grinding the face. The block i got off Bondy ( Block #3 ) we went through and even cleaned the face around the offending area with wet & dry and it never showed. It was only visible after the face was ground.

I think you may get away with a stock or mild build but i'd keep an eye on the centre stud on the passenger side, and keep checking its torque every few weeks, after all, this stud is sitting in a thread that will not be as strong, as the thread is effectively burst down one side.

Dropped off block No 4 this morning - Fingers Crossed !!!!

Jon.

[andrewc]

You could be right, if its a stock rebuild or mild tune you MAY get away with it. Maybe not. I'm just plain fussy about these things, and in my experience its shown that this is far less hassle in the long run. Building a 7M is time consuming and theres no pioint doing the job twice for the sake of a few hundred quid or a bit of extra time.

The problem is that Marks blocks was the first i'd seen where the crack was visible prior to surface grinding the face. The block i got off Bondy ( Block #3 ) we went through and even cleaned the face around the offending area with wet & dry and it never showed. It was only visible after the face was ground.

I think you may get away with a stock or mild build but i'd keep an eye on the centre stud on the passenger side, and keep checking its torque every few weeks, after all, this stud is sitting in a thread that will not be as strong, as the thread is effectively burst down one side.

Dropped off block No 4 this morning - Fingers Crossed !!!!

Jon.

When you put it like that this stud is sitting in a thread that will not be as strong, as the thread is effectively burst down one side I will check it a lot more thoroughly.... :)

Im struggling to visualise the actual crack Jon, but is there no way it is repairable..... Im guessing not?

[Sgt Bilko]

I cant see any way of repairing it economically due to the depth of it.

Just easier to get another block.

Jon.

[andrewc]

I cant see any way of repairing it economically due to the depth of it.

Just easier to get another block.

Jon.

Some reading up on SM and mkiii tech has thrown up the possiblity that this fault you describe...occurs when people have overtorqued the head studs and it effectively splits the thread?

ARPs for me anyway so its a non issue hopefully provided the blocks not cracked.

[Sgt Bilko]

I think that over torqueing the head studs would not help , BUT, i dont think this is the cause of the problem. The reason i say this is that a number of the blocks i've had have been factory origional engines and had never been appart until i took them appart. The fault was present on these.

My suspicion is that its caused by running the car after the head gasket has failed. I think it fails purely due to thermal reasons. And that the block face must be weak in this area to start with.

It would be very interesting to find out which cylinders the 7M usualy blows the gasket around, as i'm betting the most common two would be cylinders 3 & 4

Cheers
Jon.

[Supra Mitch]

HI dun my head gasket last week after it blow no3 cylinder gess what its f##king gon agen :rant:i hate my car all i have dun is throw money at it. going to take the head off agen for the 5th time so what and ware do i look for this crack. thank god i have a spare block cos it can only be that help befor i set light to the heap of crap by the way i do love the car just hate it some times:crybaby:

[andrewc]

HI dun my head gasket last week after it blow no3 cylinder gess what its f##king gon agen :rant:i hate my car all i have dun is throw money at it. going to take the head off agen for the 5th time so what and ware do i look for this crack. thank god i have a spare block cos it can only be that help befor i set light to the heap of crap by the way i do love the car just hate it some times:crybaby:


Something weird going off with that Mitch...?

I think that over torqueing the head studs would not help , BUT, i dont think this is the cause of the problem. The reason i say this is that a number of the blocks i've had have been factory origional engines and had never been appart until i took them appart. The fault was present on these.

My suspicion is that its caused by running the car after the head gasket has failed. I think it fails purely due to thermal reasons. And that the block face must be weak in this area to start with.

It would be very interesting to find out which cylinders the 7M usualy blows the gasket around, as i'm betting the most common two would be cylinders 3 & 4

Cheers
Jon.

Agreed Jon. It would be very interesting to see which cylinders the HG normally lets go around....
Anyone here have any prior experience on this please? (which cylinders did your HG let go on?!)

Could be due to running after the HG has let go.
however if you say that some of the blocks that you have bought have been part of an unmolested engine then that would suggest the head gasket had not gone on all of them?!

Either way. its a bit strange and well worth looking out for now we know about it.

[Sgt Bilko]

HI dun my head gasket last week after it blow no3 cylinder gess what its f##king gon agen :rant:i hate my car all i have dun is throw money at it. going to take the head off agen for the 5th time so what and ware do i look for this crack. thank god i have a spare block cos it can only be that help befor i set light to the heap of crap by the way i do love the car just hate it some times:crybaby:

Hi Mitch.
Most of the time you cant detect if the crack is there or not.
The crack appears between the head stud hole and the steam hole on the passenger side between cylinders 3 & 4.

In most cases its not detectable until you surface grind the block face. Even rubbing the area with wet & dry wont show it.

If i were you i'd pull the motor out and get the block face ground flat.
If you have blown another gasket after such a short time then it points at the face being distorted anyway. Maybe worth chucking a Mizumo auto rebuild kit at the engine while its appart. They do a full rebuild kit for the 7M-GTE for $300.00

Heres the link :-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-1992-3-0L-TOYOTA-SUPRA-TURBO-7MGTE-DOHC-Engine-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33625QQihZ014QQitem Z330185362475QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

IF YOU E-MAIL THEM, THEY WILL UPGARDE THE KIT FOR $40.00 TO USE CLEVITE 77 BEARINGS. Well worth the extra cash. Just chuck away the head gasket that comes in the kit and use a good metal one from summit.

If the block face is badly distorted get the head checked and refaced too as this will probably be the same.

Cheers

Jon.

[mrsoup]

hi mate not sure if you got it sorted but i have a jap block with pistons , blocks in great nic no wear on cylinders pistons are good , crank need a grind . make me a sensible offer

[Sgt Bilko]

Good news from South Cerney Engineering today, Block No 4 is not cracked.
I left instructions for them not to skim more than 0.010" off the block face and it never quite cleaned up at this, so another few thou is needed, but i'll live with that. I dont like taking too much off the deck face as this has a significant impact on the strength and gasket retention. I think these blocks are thin on the deck face anyway.

Anyway, this is goos news, success at last.

Onwards.....

Sarge.

[steve.82]

Good news on your intact block! Just as a note for all those with cracked blocks, or other bits of broken cast iron, we have found a chap who specialises in welding cast iron. He does lots of work on old Bugatti's, and is currently piecing back together a completely shattered 1904 (I think) Cadillac crankcase. Done some work for us on a woodworking machine and can't rate his work highly enough. Pretty close to you in South Cerney as well, he's in Ashton Keynes.

[Sgt Bilko]

Thats where south cerney engineering are.
Bet its the same place, as south serney engineering specialise in vintage restorations.

Jon.

[steve.82]

Could be, is it an old retired chap call lou, I think he's 83ish but looks no older than 60, I think I may take up welding!

[john89t]

I think I may take up welding![/quote]


cast iron is a little awkward, but plenty of pre-heat and cast iron welding rods should do the job :yes:

[steve.82]

yeh that's what he did with our bits, and let it cool in the stove overnight

[Sgt Bilko]

Did it all work out ok ?

Jon.

[steve.82]

I don't know did it? I'm confused! hehe

[andrewc]

I don't know did it? I'm confused! hehe

Ditto!!
Are 2 different people posting under Sgt Bilko?

[Sgt Bilko]

LOL.

Christmas schitzophrenia setting in.

I was refering to the welding YOU had done.

My engine build on block #4 looks all good so far.

Jon.

[steve.82]

Nice one, hope it continues to!

Yeh it's good! Chucked it on the machine and it does need some shimming around, but not too bad. Looks very strong! No cracks appeared anywhere as yet

[Mr-Edo]

Thats where south cerney engineering are.
Bet its the same place, as south serney engineering specialise in vintage restorations.

Jon.

I'm looking for somewhere good to reface my block and head for a metal layer gasket.

Sounds like it need them ground not milled.

Seems you recommend these guys, how much they charge you?

Ed

[Sgt Bilko]

Works out about £70 to grind the block face.
You'll need new dowel pins once its done, but these are only a few quid from toyota.....
I had the block chemically cleaned too, with new core plugs fitted, that was a bit extra, but well worth it, looked new when they had finished with it. I then gave the block a coat of heat resistant black paint to stop any rust.

Give them a shout, they have experience with these blocks.
Its one of the few places i trust for any engine work, they may not be cheap but they do a spot-on job every time.

Sarge.